Hey Mark,

I’m selling my home and the buyers inspector did a radon test. The result was 4.9, and they said I had to have a mitigation system installed. That’s not very high. Why do I have to have it fixed?

Bob

Hey Bob,

Technically, there are no federal laws that require you  to do anything about the radon in your home. You are free to live in it, just as you are free to choose to smoke 4 packs of cigarettes a day. It is your choice, and you can choose the levels and risk you are comfortable with.  However your buyers, as a stipulation in their contingency for purchasing your home have requested that you have the radon level fixed. It appears that this request is based on the EPA’s mitigation level recommendations.

There is no such thing as a safe level of radon. Just like there is no “safe” number of cigarettes you can smoke a day. Therefore what we want to do is reduce the health risks of radon by reducing it as much as is practically possible. The EPA recommends that if your radon level is below 2.0 pCi/L that with today’s technology, we really can’t practically reduce the radon levels much more than that, so the home should be re-tested every two years to make sure it hasn’t increased. If your levels are greater than 2 and less that 4 pCi/L then you should consider having a system installed to try to reduce it below 2. If your levels are 4 or above, the EPA strongly suggests that you definitely have the home mitigated (but even then there is no requirement to do so).

The risks are real. Statistics have shown that living in a home with a radon level of 4.0 pCi/L, is equivalent to your risk of dying in a car accident. We all wear seatbelts to help reduce that risk. Therefore common sense tells us that if by installing a relatively low cost device in our home we can reduce our lung cancer risks as well, we should do that.

I hope that helps.

Mark

Mark Nahrgang is the owner of Kingdom Inspection Network Group – St. Louis and is a professional NACHI certified building inspector in the St. Louis metro area. Mark performs home inspections as well as commercial inspections throughout St. Louis and St. Charles County. If you are looking for a thorough and qualified St. Louis area home inspector, use the contact information on this site to contact Mark regarding available services.

Thanks for letting me pick your brain!

Caroline

A. Hey Caroline,

I can’t really tell you to do anything other than what the EPA says, and the EPA says to leave it alone.  If it must be disturbed, it should be done by a professional.  I understand that you are a do-it-yourself kind of person, and that you really can’t afford to have a professional come take care of it.  So my recommendation is to leave it be.  Start saving.  And when you have enough put away to hire a professional, do so. Some things are easy for a home owner to do.  Some things should be left to the folks with the proper equipment and training.  This is one of those things that should be left to the pros.

I know that’s not what you wanted to hear, but that’s the best advice I’ve got.

Hope that helps.

Mark

PS. Don’t fool with the unopened bags either.  Let the pros take care of them too.  The outside of the bags are covered in insulation dust.  That’s what gets into the air, and into your lungs (and your kids lungs).

Mark Nahrgang is the owner of Kingdom Inspection Network Group – St. Louis and is a professional NACHI certified building inspector in the St. Louis metro area. Mark performs home inspections as well as commercial inspections throughout St. Louis and St. Charles County.

My house was built in 1958, according to the date on the chimney, I purchased the house in 2001, and did total renovation, unfortunatly the vermiculite is still in my attic and when the house was inspected before buying it the inspector said that it was fine to leave it. I was wondering if you knew what year the vermiculite had asbestos in it?

Thank you, Caroline

A. Hey Caroline,
Most of the vermiculite used as insulation in north America came from a mine in Libby Montana.  This mine’s vermiculite was contaminated with several large veins of asbestos.  At one time, Asbestos was considered an excellent insulator and fire retardant.  Therefore, initially there wasn’t much concern about the asbestos contaminating the vermiculite. It wasn’t until later, when a connection between asbestos and lung diseases was found, that vermiculite insulation became a concern for homeowners. Unfortunately, there isn’t any particular date that you can count on the vermiculite not containing asbestos. While not all vermiculite contains asbestos (not all vermiculite came from, or currently comes from the Libby mine), most vermiculite insulation does. Or, at least the EPA recommends that you assume it does. Your inspector was correct, in saying you can leave it alone. The concern is when the vermiculite is disturbed either by storing things in the attic, or by renovations. I’d recommend clicking on the download links in the right hand side bar to read more about vermiculite insulation and the EPA’s recommendations to homeowners.
I hope that helps.
Mark

Hey Victoria,
It’s hard to tell you what would be best in your situation without actually looking at the home, but I can give you some options to consider.

One option that would be a permanent solution, is to have have the vermiculite professionally removed and replaced. That’s going to be a fairly expensive proposition and one that isn’t always necessary. If the insulation is staying where it is supposed to be, isn’t sifting into the living area around lights and fixtures, and has no traffic on or around it, a lower cost solution would be to cover it up.

I would recommend that you interview the insulation companies in your area, and make sure that their installers are familiar with vermiculite and the possibility that it contains asbestos. If their installers are well trained, and properly equipped, they may be able to either lay rolled insulation, or blow additional fiber or cellulose insulation over the top of what you already have. That will of course disturb what you have to a certain degree, but a properly trained and equipped installer will minimize the disturbance as much as is reasonably possible. Remember though, with the second option, you must always be aware of the vermiculite’s presence. Anyone going into the attic should be notified of it’s existence. And any remodeling that will disturb it will need to be done professionally, as well. If you have insulation added, make sure you document what was done and keep the receipts. When you go to sell the home, put some wording in your disclosure of this nature… “In 2008 we added 8 inches of blown cellulose insulation on top of the original 6 inches of vermiculite.” This does two things… It informs the buyer that vermiculite is present, and also lets them know that you improved the home by adding insulation and by covering the vermiculite. Reduce buyer suspicions by disclosing up front and increase buyer peace of mind by advertising the improvement.

Bottom line, I would recommend that you get several estimates from some asbestos remediation companies for removal, as well as insulation companies for covering it up. This will allow you to make the best decision based on your specific circumstances.
Mark

Mark Nahrgang is the owner of Kingdom Inspection Network Group – St. Louis and is a professional NACHI certified building inspector in the St. Louis metro area. Mark performs home inspections as well as commercial inspections throughout St. Louis and St. Charles County.

I just read your question about a seller having asbestos in their home. I am on the other end, the buyer. I just had an inspection and the inspector found vermiculite in a portion of the home. It is covered by about 8-10 inches of new installation.

One concern, the inspector stuck his hand into the vermiculite and pulled out a handful to show me.. does this fall under the category of ‘do not disturb the asbestos’ or is this ok?

Thank you!

Maria

Hey Maria,

While a minor disturbance such as this may not be a major health risk in and of itself, the cumulative effect of exposure to asbestos is a proven threat.  Apparently your inspector has a comfort level with it that exceeds what the EPA recommends.  They recommend NOT disturbing the vermiculite insulation.  If it is disturbed inadvertently, they recommend leaving the area and allowing the dust to settle.

Even though the inspector should not have disturbed it, I might also say that it is good that he found the vermiculite.  Most inspectors don’t move insulation around.  His “probing” was what lead him to the discovery.

Now, you need to ask yourself how much you love the home. If you love it, and can either live in the home without disturbing the insulation, or can have it removed, then the home may still be a good option for you. The fact that additional insulation is on top of the vermiculite does give it an additional barrier that may help to minimize disturbances. You can read more about vermiculite insulation and asbestos on the EPA’s website so that you can be well-informed as you make your decision.

Mark

Mark Nahrgang is the owner of Kingdom Inspection Network Group – St. Louis and is a professional NACHI certified building inspector in the St. Louis metro area. Mark performs home inspections as well as commercial inspections throughout St. Louis and St. Charles County.

The reason I am interested in using vermiculite as an attic insulation is that it is one of the few materials that is non toxic and non flammable. Fiberglass is flammable and in addition, I hate working with the stuff.

Does anyone know of any other materials other than vermucilite that is both non toxic and non flammable? My problem is that I own a Victorian and there are no firebreaks in the walls and no sheet rock.
David

Hey David,
It is also my understanding that the vermiculite that is currently being mined is tested for asbestos.  And because of that, today’s sources are free from asbestos.  However, in spite of the fact that vermiculite does have many practical uses, and would potentially make a great home insulation, it is not being used that way today.  And, I think you are asking for trouble if you do.

If you eventually try to sell the home, your buyers will have a home inspection performed.  That inspector will more than likely identify your insulation as vermiculite.  Since it is not currently being used as an insulation material, there will be cause to question if it is contaminated with asbestos or not.  Since the EPA recommends that home owners and buyers assume all vermiculite insulation contains asbestos, you will likely be fighting an uphill battle in proving that it was installed recently, and that the source was confirmed to be free from contamination.  It would also be difficult to prove that there wasn’t contaminated vermiculate already there, and you just simply added to it.  Even if you convinced your buyers of that, they still might shy away from the home because they would have to fight the same battle when they sold it.

Fiberglass insulation is not flammable.  The paper backer on some of it is, but there is no more risk with that, than with the paper on drywall.  So that is a relatively safe product to use.  That is why it is so popular.  I understand your dislike for using it (it is pretty itchy), however if you use proper clothing (including long sleeves, gloves, and respirator) you should have pretty good luck with it, especially since your walls are currently open.  Also, there are many other alternative insulation products on the market that you may wish to consider.  Perhaps a blown-in fiberglass or cellulose option would work for your situation.  There are also a number of “green” foam spray insulations that work well and don’t give off harmful vapors.  The bottom line is…. I’d suggest that you keep researching your options.

As to the firebreak… older homes built with “balloon framing” are a fire concern.  You stated there is no sheet rock, which implies that the walls are currently open.  I would highly recommend that you install a fire break between each stud, at each floor level.  This will involve a bit of effort and cost.  However the peace of mind it will bring is well worth the effort.  It will also make insulating the cavities somewhat easier.

Mark Nahrgang is the owner of Kingdom Inspection Network Group – St. Louis and is a professional NACHI certified building inspector in the St. Louis metro area. Mark performs home inspections as well as commercial inspections throughout St. Louis and St. Charles County.

The only reason I am becoming more aware of Vermiculite Insulation, is because I saw an ad on TV the other night that stated there is some type of Class Action Lawsuit going on over Vermiculite.  I did not get to jot down the phone number on the advertisement, so if you know anything about this, could you please let me know who is conducting this suit and maybe a phone number to call ?

We have often wondered since we moved into this home, if it was a “sick” home…we all very frequently feel conjested, “clogged up”, …we have never been this way in any of our other homes we owned.

How can we tell if we have Vermiculite in our attic?….

Thank-You!
Alice

Hey Alice,
Thanks for your question.  We recently noticed a sudden spike in vermiculite-related inquiries at www.HeyMark.Info and weren’t sure why. Thanks to your question, we became aware of a bankruptcy claim concerning vermiculite insulation. Details on this can be found at http://www.graceclaims.com/index.shtml. Homeowners with vermiculite insulation should take a moment to visit that web site. I will be letting my St. Louis area home inspection clients know about this situation, as well.

To determine if you have vermiculite insulation, I’d suggest that you compare it to some photographs. Vermiculite has fairly distinctive features. The web site above has some very good photographs, and there are two vermiculite files available for download right here on this site (see the right sidebar), with photos for reference.  If you are still unsure, contact a local home inspector and ask him or her to come out and identify it for you. If it is vermiculite, you could have it tested for asbestos; however the results of testing are likely to be inconclusive. The reason for this is that not all vermiculite contains asbestos, and parts of your attic could have asbestos while other parts may not.  So, even with testing, I’d be hard pressed to say you’d know for sure whether you had asbestos in your vermiculite. Also, the act of taking samples for testing would disturb the vermiculite, and the EPA warns against disturbing this type of insulation. You will probably find some web sites that advocate the removal of vermiculite insulation, but the EPA says to leave it alone unless you are doing some remodeling. My personal opinion is to follow the EPA’s advice. But, your comfort level dictates whether you should have it tested and/or removed. If you do decide to have it tested or removed (or are planning to do some remodeling) be sure to call a certified asbestos remediation company to take care of it for you. This should be done by experts who are trained to handle it properly.

If you are concerned about breathing cancer causing agents in your home, I would suggest that radon gas may be a greater heath risk than undisturbed insulation.  And if you haven’t had the home checked for radon in the last two years, please do so.

Now, I’d like to address some of the health issues that you state.  These could be caused by a number of different air quality issues in the home.  It might be asbestos, but it might also be as simple as basic allergies.  A thorough cleaning including having all your ducts and chimneys cleaned and swabbed may be of benefit.  You may have a roach problem in the home and could be feeling the effects of that contamination.  If your home has a high humidity level or moisture problem, you might have issues with mold, in which case a mold specialist can inspect your home, take some samples, and make some recommendations.  Or your home may be polluted with residue left over from illegal drug use or manufacturing.  Drug residue never goes away on its own, and can even migrate through fresh paint.  Residents of homes polluted with drug residue, often suffer many of the same health effects of drug users.  This too can be tested for, and mitigated if necessary.

Check out my downloads and links sections in the sidebars for more information on these topics.  Since you do not live in the St. Louis area, I would also direct you to www.Inspectorlocator.com to find a qualified home inspector in your area.

Mark Nahrgang is the owner of Kingdom Inspection Network Group – St. Louis and is a professional NACHI certified building inspector in the St. Louis metro area. Mark performs home inspections as well as commercial inspections throughout St. Louis and St. Charles County.

The home I am selling has vermiculite insulation. The buyer’s inspector said that it is asbestos, and now the buyers want me to remove all of it. That’s going to cost over $10,000.00. Is that really necessary?

Sue

Hey Sue,

Vermiculite insulation MAY contain asbestos. You can have some samples taken from various places in the attic, and have it analyzed, but the results of that testing may not be conclusive. The EPA recommends that you simply leave the insulation alone and don’t disturb it.

Here is a copy of what I put in my reports when I discover the existence of vermiculite insulation…

The attic contains what appears to be vermiculite insulation. Not all vermiculite insulation contains asbestos but prior to its close in 1990, much of the world’s supply of vermiculite came from a mine near Libby, Montana. This mine had a natural deposit of asbestos which resulted in the vermiculite being contaminated with asbestos. Attic insulation produced using vermiculite ore, particularly ore that originated from the Libby mine, may contain asbestos fibers. The EPA, ASTDR and NACHI recommend that Home Inspectors assume vermiculite insulation contains asbestos and so should you. EPA, ATSDR, IAC2 and NACHI strongly recommend that homeowners make every effort not to disturb vermiculite insulation in their attics. If you occasionally have to go into your attic, current best practices state you should:

1. Make every effort to stay on the floored part of your attic and to not disturb the insulation.

2. If you must perform activities that may disturb the attic insulation such as moving boxes (or other materials), do so as gently as possible to minimize the disturbance.

3. Leave the attic immediately after the disturbance.

4. If you need work done in your attic such as the installation of cable or utility lines, hire trained and certified professionals who can safely do the work.

5. It is possible that vermiculite attic insulation can sift through cracks in the ceiling, around light fixtures, or around ceiling fans. You can prevent this by sealing the cracks and holes that insulation could pass through.

6. Common dust masks are not effective against asbestos fibers.

For more information regarding the risks of asbestos check out the dowload to the right (Vermiculite Insulation), or the EPA’s website at http://www.epa.gov/asbestos. The EPA also has a free printable brochure on vermiculite insulation that can be downloaded here.